Ep #337: Money is Emotional: The Link Between Finances and Well-Being with Aja Evans

This is Feminist Wellness, and I’m your host, Nurse Practitioner, somatics and nervous system nerd, and life coach Béa Victoria Albina. I’ll show you how to get unstuck, drop the anxiety, perfectionism, and codependency so you can live from your beautiful heart. Welcome, my love, let’s get started.

Hello, hello, my love. I hope this finds you doing so well.

This week, I am absolutely delighted to share a conversation with Aja Evans. She is the author of Feel-Good Finance: Untangling Your Relationship with Money for Better Mental, Emotional, and Financial Well-being. She is a board-certified therapist, consultant, and speaker specializing in financial therapy. Her work is really fascinating and so I wanted to bring her on the show to talk with you about all things money and mental health. 

Because particularly, and we'll get into this, in emotional outsourcing, we can really find ourselves at the extremes of giving and taking and can end up having a really unbalanced relationship with money and with our finances and with our spending and with our debt and how we're using money as a tool. So, we get into it in this episode. I'm really excited to share it with you. Let me know what you think of it.

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Aja Evans: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to chat and dive in. I think we're funny, so I'm ready.

Bea Victoria Albina: We're hilarious. We've been cracking up over here for like probably about a half hour. So, thank you, thank you, thank you. Well, I shared your bio. Is there anything else that you'd like to make sure the good people know about you? I mean, you're very accomplished. You're a real fancy-pantsy.

Aja Evans: Thank you. I am just a normal person who doesn't mind trying really hard and putting myself out there and being vulnerable. And I think that has led me to feel very comfortable in this kind of work where it can get really uncomfortable for people. So, I'm just like everybody else.

Bea Victoria Albina: I love that. That's really sweet. That's really beautiful.

So, I'm really excited to talk about our finances because it's a thing that too many people sort of sweep under the rug. And definitely, I don't know, there's a lot of discomfort with talking about money. I'm an Argentine and a New Yorker. So I'm so used to people being like, "Hi, nice to meet you. What do you pay for rent?" So it's so interesting to me that people have that block, and I get it in this deep way. So, what do you think it is? What do you think drives that block?

Aja Evans: I think it's a lot of things, right? I also think that New York is a very special place. A lot of my, like my practice is New York City-based and a lot of my clients are also navigating the microcosm of what it means to live here. And we know it's a very competitive place, and a lot of high-cost-of-living cities are very competitive. But there's something that just kind of puts it on the front pedestal right in your face of this beautiful city that we call home. So, I will say that's kind of in the forefront of a lot of my work.

But when it's comes to money, like what is stopping people? I think it is a whole mixture of a slew of things that sometimes we're conscious of and know, and sometimes we just have no idea and it's just kind of been built into us growing up. So, yes, we're going to talk about your parents. We're going to talk about your childhood, the roots of where did you learn about money? How was it spoken about? Was it secretive? Was it private? Did you feel like you could share with other people? 

Those money beliefs that you have just growing up, whether you realize you're creating a foundation for your relationship with money or not, is going to play a large role in how you feel like you navigate and actually do navigate money in your adulthood. It's going to come from your childhood, right? And your parents and family members and just information you received.

And then I think there's a more cultural, social aspect of how we talk about money. And I think a long time ago, there was the aspect of not wanting to brag or be really humble about your money and not be showy or in your face about it. And I think that mixed with, you know, how society's changing, how cultures grow and take root has really shifted even though we haven't necessarily broken the narrative of, oh, we shouldn't talk about money. 

Like, people want to talk about their vacations or flying private or what they spend on childcare or schooling or cars or clothing, rent, anything. But sometimes I think it feels like, "Should we do this? Should we have that kind of conversation? What does it say about me?" And the third piece of that is more of the what does it say about me if I make, if I don't make, if I have, if I don't have, if I can afford this, if I can't afford that. And I think we've really attached emotional, moral standard to how successful people are, given what their salaries are or how much money they can spend on things, honestly.

Bea Victoria Albina: And how they choose to spend it. It is really fascinating to think how much of the extremes one sees. I think again, I'm thinking of the New York context where there is that braggadocious end of it, but there's also so much of like, "Oh, I got this on sale. Oh, it was clearance at Marshall's." 

Aja Evans: Don’t judge me because I have this much money. 

Bea Victoria Albina: Exactly. It's really fascinating. I've been thinking about how to talk about this topic within the framework of emotional outsourcing, my work around codependent, perfectionist, and people-pleasing habits. And one of the big things that came up for me was this codependent habit of prioritizing others and trying to fix their lives, fix their feelings, caretake others, not take care of, but caretake others through money. And I'm wondering if you could speak to that and particularly if you have any thoughts on how to recognize it, see it, and step out of it.

Aja Evans: Yeah, and I think, so again, complex. None of these topics we're diving into…

Bea Victoria Albina: I know, it's super casual. Let's talk about money and NBD. It's fine, not a big deal, super chill.

Aja Evans: Easy. Small potatoes. But what I think, so one, I do think that there is, of course, there are gender norms in that. Of course, there are norms of like a potential parent-child relationship. I want to take care of you. Just in general, right? Whether that person wants to be taken care of or not, we're not talking about that, but just caretaking. We do need money, right? Like, it doesn't matter how much you have, how little you have, we do need money to navigate in some way, shape, or form in the world. 

And I think being able to take care of somebody, that can easily be shifted to financially taking care of them. Oh, I want to make sure you're okay, so I'm going to pay your rent. I want to make sure you're okay, I'm going to make you this food and give you this dinner. Do not worry about it. I'm going to treat you. I'm going to do that.

So, I understand where this sentiment comes from of wanting to take care of somebody, especially using financial means to do that. But there's also the aspect of what it might mean to the person to be able to take care of somebody, to financially be able to take care of them in that way. That is going to feel different than it would if you're giving somebody time or if you are saying like, “Hey, I'm going to help you fix this.” That's really meaningful, but it also looks different if you're like, “Hey, I'm going to buy this for you.” So, I think there are a lot of just, you know, convoluted complexities when we start talking about how do people financially take care of somebody? What does that mean for the person who is being taken care of? And what does it mean for the person who is providing in that way?

Bea Victoria Albina: Right, because it can be really infantilizing and can really hold someone back to feel like they have to completely depend on someone else financially. I definitely in my work, work with folks at both ends of the spectrum. Like I have a client who leans really heavily on her parents who have very different political views, who don't treat her very well per her own report, but they pay for her life. And so there's this feeling like she has to go with their flow.

Aja Evans: Yes. And that can be really manipulative. What happens if you don't go with their flow? What happens if you kind of buck the system and do something different? Are you worrying about if your livelihood is going to be taken from you? Will you have to move? Like, where are you going to go if you're financially cut off? And we definitely don't talk about those aspects of wealth or money, especially if somebody is kind of, you know, taking care of somebody else financially. 

A lot of times, it's like, “Oh, you're so lucky, you don't have to work in this way, or you get to choose your passion or go after it.” Yes, but it also comes with these very hidden, private aspects of what do the money strings mean? It means I had to go to this school. It means I had to study this thing. It means I needed to take this job or work in the family business. It means I need to tolerate views that I may not agree with because I am worried about what it means if I speak up about my lifestyle. So that's not easy. Not easy at all.

Bea Victoria Albina: No. I mean, what would you say to that person?

Aja Evans: Yeah, I mean, if somebody was sitting right in front of me, I'd ask them first, like, what do you want? Like honestly, like what do you want? Do you want to stay in your apartment? Do you want to continue this lifestyle? And at what cost? Are you willing to, you know, bury it inside of you so that you are living the life you're living currently? And then what does that do to you? And that is kind of back to the second question of what does it cost you to do that? And for some people, they're like, "I'll do anything." I'm like, "Yeah, but are you happy? Are you content? Is it destroying you inside? Are you losing track of yourself?" 

The times we start to really dive in when we talk about parents who are able to really take care of their kids, which is a lovely thing, but you also want to grow their self-efficacy, their self-esteem. And if they feel like, hey, I can't do anything, I don't have the skills to make it on my own, that's not good for them either. So trying to figure out like, hey, what's your identity look like if you're not being taken care of financially and how do we make sure this works? So all of that would not be in one session, but that's what we would be talking about.

Bea Victoria Albina: That would be quite the fire hose. But so too with the other side of it, the person who, and I have been that person historically in relationships where I give and give financially, emotionally, labor, all the ways. And we talk on the show that if you're a giver, find a giver, right? Step into your power, break up with takers, right, give, givers love givers. What would you say to the givers? The over-givers, those giving to their own detriment.

Aja Evans: Honestly, it's probably very similar line of questioning. Like, honestly.

Bea Victoria Albina: Fair. Totally fair.

Aja Evans: What do you want? I see you giving and giving. What are you trying to get? In the giving, what are you trying to get? What are you trying to receive in how much you are giving? What do you want? Okay, at what cost? So sometimes that is the financial cost, especially if you're a giver. What does that mean for how much you have to work or how much you are choosing to live on because you are giving so much financially or emotionally, at what cost does it come to you both financially, emotionally, spiritually, physically, all of it. And then we're doing the same kind of thing that we would do with the taker. Okay, is that something that you want to continue? Does it feel good? Let's really get down to the root of what you are trying to achieve in all of your giving.

Bea Victoria Albina: Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. So, shifting a little bit, you just wrote a book.

Aja Evans: I did.

Bea Victoria Albina: Congrats. Felicitaciones. It is such an accomplishment. It is, talk about labor of love. Jeez, Louise. Truly.

Aja Evans: Oh my gosh.

Bea Victoria Albina: Yeah. Can you tell us about the book?

Aja Evans: Yeah. Yeah, so Feel-Good Finance is kind of a love letter to a younger self. And I got into financial therapy and doing this work when I was living in New York as a 20-something and wondering why I felt crappy when my friends were able to afford the things that I could not afford, honestly. My self-esteem didn't feel the best. I was just like, why can they do this? I can't. I don't understand. I did all this schooling, all these student loans. I have my Master's degree. Why? 

And it's because, you know, mental health doesn't pay very well and not nearly as well as marketing or advertising or just different fields. So I had to really soul search and that brought me on the journey of how do I mix together money and mental health. So this book really is about understanding the psychological aspects of your relationship with money. So not just, oh, I can't stick with my budget. What's going on? Why do I have 17 black sweaters in my closet? Why do I feel bad when I can't go to the bachelorette party? It's really diving into where did that root of your money relationship come from? What are the patterns that you have? Let's identify them and understand what you are actually trying to achieve in that. So it is about me, it's about my clients, it's about all of us, and how we spend our money and how we relate to money in general.

Bea Victoria Albina: Beautiful. And so what are some of the top takeaways from the book?

Aja Evans: I mean, I'm going to say, it sounds so simple, but you know, not everything that's simple is easy, is that money is emotional. Period. The end. I think a lot of traditional financial advice has said that it's not and to take the emotions out of the numbers, it's impossible, right? Like if you're looking at, okay, how much do I make and how much is going out, sure, those numbers aren't emotional. You're not emotionally attached to the dollar, but you are emotionally attached to what it affords you, what access it gives you, what stability it is able to give you, the feeling you have when you earn your money and have a fully funded emergency fund and know that you're safe and stable. Like that is emotional. 

So, I think that we don't realize that and this Feel-Good Finance is diving into that. So money is emotional. We're all feeling a little bit icky at some point of our lives in our money journey and that's okay. And really at the end of the day that you are not the only one going through this. We are not alone. I don't care what financial situation you are in. I can promise you, you are not the only person who has gone through something like that, similar to that. Like people can relate, we just don't talk about it.

Bea Victoria Albina: Yeah, fair enough. So would the goal then be to take the emotion out or to relate differently to the emotion? Like what do we do with the fact that I agree money is emotional and I worked in low-income healthcare long enough to know that not affording your insulin is - I've cried with patients so many times about not affording your whatever. So what do we do with that emotion? How do we move forward while holding that emotion?

Aja Evans: Yeah, I really want people to understand where it's coming from. So like I want people to understand that you're not just emotional for no reason. And yes, it's emotional, but understand where that emotion is coming from and then let's let it be there. A lot of times we want to shop our way out of our feeling, we want to work out our way out of a feeling, we want to get out of that feeling so desperately, so quickly. And money is a great coping skill to do that very fast. It just doesn't last long. And what I'm saying is, listen, I'm not telling you not to go enjoy your money and have, you know, nice things and go to beautiful places and have great experiences with people you love. I'm telling you I want you to understand why you are doing that and then if it's like, oh, I'm really upset, let's just give the emotion a minute, some time to just kind of sit and what other coping skills can you reach for that will be more helpful to you and then after you're regulated and you're feeling better in your body, you want to go buy the thing, great. I love that for you as long as you can afford it.

Bea Victoria Albina: Do it. Excellent. So what I'm hearing there in is having that intentionality, awareness, presence to not use money as a buffer against feeling the challenging feelings. And so instead, learning to pause, be with the feeling that's there, allow it the space it needs, regulate your nervous system around whatever the incident was that led you to want to buffer without subsuming the feeling, and then like buy the 400 - also, I take umbrage with your stance against 1800 black sweaters, because that's my entire life. This is for those listening, I'm wearing a pink sweater, but this is a deep rarity. And it was actually a conscious move because I'm only always wearing a black sweater. So I take deep umbrage, but…

Aja Evans: I guess. Same. To be clear, same. 

Bea Victoria Albina: This is not a fashion issue, more than a financial one. I mean, it's the most solid advice, right? Is to not, one of the things I say so much is, don't ask things to do not their job. I'm not sure that was English. So let me break it down. Like I was out with a friend recently and she was like, "Do I want to drink? Like should I order a cocktail?" You know how we just like say that out loud, right? "Do I want a cocktail?" And I was like, "Well, Sarah, are you asking alcohol to do a job for you?" And she was like, "Ugh. This is why I don't go out with life coaches." And I was like, "Ha." But she was like, "Yeah, I had a really lousy day and I was going to ask a gin and tonic to do some work for me. And now I'm going to get a seltzer." Because I need to do that work. Gin can't do it for me. I mean.

Aja Evans: And just the awareness, right? Like that's all we're asking. I'm asking for just awareness. If you're like, hey, this G&T is going to do the work for me. I mean, I still need to do that work, but that's okay. I'm still going to have this G&T. I'm not mad, right? But the awareness of I'm aware that I want it to show up for me and do something for me. Am I willing to do that work right now? Later? Like I love that you brought that example. That's exactly what it is.

Bea Victoria Albina: Yeah. And just like for the record, because science and facts, more black sweaters will fix every hole in your heart. I just need to be extremely clear about. 

Aja Evans: Yes. We need them. 365. 

Bea Victoria Albina: Is it enough, though? Is it?

Aja Evans: I mean, for some, maybe, for some, maybe not. You know, there's a large variety in black sweaters.

Bea Victoria Albina: Do you know what I recently did? I started darning. I feel like I'm like Little House on the Prairie over here. I just needed like a handicraft, something to do with my paws trying to stay off the social medias, like keep my phone in the other room kind of jam. And so I had this really gorgeous black cashmere sweater from the thrift, like really nice quality Neiman Marcus from the thrift. I think I paid $3 American dollars for it. And it had a ton of holes in it. So I put it in the freezer for a month, you know, kill the stuff. And I started darning it. And it was so fun. And was like such a nice reclamation. It felt really good.

Aja Evans: Yeah. I'm like also that's cool when you're like, look what I just did.

Bea Victoria Albina: Yeah, it felt really good. It felt very eco. It felt very like, I don't know, like an important reclamation of like the importance of using our hands.

Aja Evans: Yeah. Yes.

Bea Victoria Albina: And like if you just go and like buy a new black sweater because yours has a hole in it, what are you missing? What opportunity, what creativity, what experience are you missing out on when you have the money do the work? Or the G&T do the work.

Aja Evans: Yep.

Bea Victoria Albina: Instead of letting your little paws do it for you.

Aja Evans: I think that there's something to be said about what happens when we do the work ourselves, right? Like I think the analogy of a sweater is perfect of, hey, I saw this hole. I did the work. I fixed it. I feel really proud of myself. Look at this new skill I just learned. I am boosted that longer term dopamine boost from what you did. Every time you see that sweater, you're going to think about the fact that you fixed that hole. That's awesome versus looking at the sweater that you might throw out or donate or do something else with and you add a new sweater. You're not looking at that new sweater thinking about the old sweater and how it had a hole in it and how you could have fixed it. You're not.

Bea Victoria Albina: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I mean it really, when we really zoom out and talk about money and finance, of course we have to talk about white supremacy. We have to talk about late stage capitalism, the patriarchy and all these stories about who we are supposed to be and how we are marked as good.

Aja Evans: Yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. 

Bea Victoria Albina: And what the markers of being like a good person in the world are. 

Aja Evans: And like good with my money, I'm successful. I talk about in the book, what is good debt versus bad debt?

Bea Victoria Albina: Oh, lay it on us.

Aja Evans: I mean, if you're asking somebody just the like zoomed out good debt is debt that is under 7%. Bad debt is debt that is over it. However, there are people who don't even use debt as the verbiage. When you are talking about people who are like, oh, my student loan debt, my car payment, my car debt, my mortgage debt, whatever that might be. There are very many people out in the world who are like, oh, this is leverage. They're not even using the word debt. They're not saying, oh, my good leverage, my bad leverage. It's I'm over-leveraged. Oh, I need to take more like I can access more leverage. 

They're looking at debt in a way that allows them to get the things that they need and potentially grow more of those things, a.k.a money. And I found it very interesting that when you're talking about people who may not be in a very rich, wealthy, whatever, you know, whatever word you want to use for it, position, that it is looked at as good debt or bad debt. And yes, some debt like just mathematically isn't the best for you. It is going can be harmful. However, that debt does allow people access to things that they may not have been able to get. 

I could not go to get a Master's without taking student loan debt on. That is not bad debt to me. I mean, some people would call it good debt. I'm like, no, that's just me accessing a system that does take advantage of many people is probably taking advantage of me currently to get something that was really important. And I needed a Master's to be able to be a therapist, like just needed to happen. So just looking at the verbiage around good and bad, it goes back to what you're saying around, am I a good person? I want to do things right. I want to do it correctly.

Bea Victoria Albina: When you said good and bad debt, my brain went less to 7% and more student debt good, credit card debt bad person.

Aja Evans: Correct. And that's what it is. But that's exactly it.

Bea Victoria Albina: Yeah, it's that duality of consume, consume, but don't over consume. Like women are meant to be thin, but not too thin. Voluptuous and curvy, but not fat. It's the exact same thing because it's about, I mean, that then brings to mind, how do we relate to money and nourishment?

Aja Evans: Mhm. Yeah, all of it. Yes. Yes. 

Bea Victoria Albina: Yeah, what comes up for you around that?

Aja Evans: Well, I think when I think about money and nourishment, so culturally for me, as a Black woman, food and community are very tied together. When I am upset, whether it's I'm angry, I'm mad, I want to go eat something. And it's not just I want to go eat, I want to be with people when I'm eating. And what I'm looking for is that support, is a delicious meal, is the conversation, all of the aspects of that. So when I think about money and nourishment, I do eat and drink a lot of my money. Sometimes I love it, sometimes I don't love it. Sometimes my bank account doesn't love it. 

But for me, when I think about nourishment, I'm like, how much money am I willing to pay for what, how I'm nourishing myself with the food, with the company, with the ambiance, that is nourishing to me. So, yeah, and that's just kind of what comes up for me when I think about it and I don't mind doing it as long as I can afford it. And that is, it's a really slippery slope when we start thinking about it because they are connected. They want people to start really dissecting like, oh, what is this? Like what is going on for me when I start thinking about money and nourishment or money and friendships or money and wellness, you know, like there's a lot when it starts coming when we start dissecting what's going on and what we are trying to achieve, portray, what we want, all of it. So I want people to start diving in and not that you always know the answers right away. It's just like, hey, let's chew on this a little bit.

Bea Victoria Albina: Because it is this really entrenched story that if you pay more, it's better.

Aja Evans: Yes.

Bea Victoria Albina: What's really funny is I remember a friend of mine in New York, fresh out of her MSW, one of her mentors said to her, "Well, you have to raise your prices quickly or people won't think you're a good therapist." Which is like just so New York encapsulated, right? Like, oh, I don't know, I was going to go to this therapist, but she was like X dollars an hour and I was like, "If she's so cheap, could she be good, any good?" I don't know, I want to go to somebody good. This one's like twice the price. Great. And so how then do we denigrate, ah, that's interesting. So the fancier the food, the more extracted from the earth, right? The more processed, the more and by processing, it can be sous-vide. I don't mean Kraft singles. That's a whole other conversation. 

But the more extracted from what it is, and therefore the more extracted from lineage, from the earth, we get farther and farther from abuelita's kitchen. And that which is community is denigrated in that process. It's not as good. 

Aja Evans: And it's also too, like I think when we, I mean, this to me can go very quickly down the road of like what does it mean for like fine dining or that extreme kind of expensive restaurant, right? Like, I also want grandma to be cooking for me and to be nourished by watching her cook and the smells and the home and the noise and all of that going on. But then there are, you know, places you go to fine dining and everyone's silent. We're not talking, we're not eating. It's not about community. You want to sit and savor. And that's important too. 

And as somebody who really loves food and I have paid a pretty penny for like some fancy meals, but that's not, I want to find dining experience, yes, but I want it to be in a way that I can appreciate that, hey, this lingonberry that I'm eating was grown in this particular farm by grandma. And that's why it is so special and so different and so, I think we can get into the nuances of how culture and society have decided that something is nourishing, not nourishing, important or relevant.

Bea Victoria Albina: Oh, this like, I want another like six hours with you to like really go down this rabbit hole of like what - because it becomes such a feminist issue when we talk about nourishment. Because we have to talk about bodies. And so then how do we commodify bodies? How do we commodify labor? What does it mean that the labor of some bodies?

Aja Evans: Yes.

Bea Victoria Albina: Is worth so much more and then the abuelita in the Bronx making the most amazing rice and beans ever, what's that worth?

Aja Evans: And should I be eating it? And maybe I shouldn't be. And I'm like, what? What you should be eating. Like are you kidding? 

Bea Victoria Albina: And then hashtag wellness is out here telling us that our traditional foods are not the right food.

Aja Evans: The not healthy foods, yes.

Bea Victoria Albina: Which becomes so complicated. So then, if we are, we went out into the atmosphere, began to complicate, if we were to simplify, what comes to you? Takeaways.

Aja Evans: Takeaways.

Bea Victoria Albina: Eat what your grandma made.

Aja Evans: Yeah, please eat your family's food. You know? And I think because now I'm really thinking about this, don't just eat your food, allow it to nourish you because there is so much that's happening around it. It is not just about what you are eating. It's the other things and I think we have really gotten away from community and coming together in this way. And that's why community is so nourishing, right? 

Because you are getting and giving, your presence is also in the giving, your contribution to the conversation is also in the giving while other people are giving and you are taking that. And when I think about what this book is trying to do, what I'm trying to do is to help people not feel so alone, for people to remember that you are not alone even though you have a ton of credit card debt. You're not alone even though you feel like you could be doing something better with your money or you didn't know because nobody taught you and you should have known. 

That's what I hear all the time from my clients, "I should have known." I'm like, "Why? Nobody told you. They didn't know." And at the end of the day, I think a real foundation to the book is that we all want to be seen, we all want to be in community with other people, and money has found a way for us to feel isolated and shameful and then we don't want to be in the community anymore too.

Bea Victoria Albina: So allow your money to be a way to reconnect with community.

Aja Evans: Yeah, as long as you can afford it. Pay your bills first because we don't want numbers game.

Bea Victoria Albina: Yeah, yeah, fair enough. But Zoom calls are free.

Aja Evans: Zoom is free. And also like after you paid your rent, having your people in your apartment, I don't care how big or small it is, is also free. Because you paid for it. You know, enjoy it.

Bea Victoria Albina: Yeah, it's true. It's true and don't let those whatever your stories, your narratives block your people from connecting with you, from coming into your life, from being in your life.

Aja Evans: Yeah.

Bea Victoria Albina: That's so beautiful. My heart feels so warm thinking about community and I just love having a million people in the apartment.

Aja Evans: Yeah, listen, I think it's the best when you're it's cramped and crowded and everyone's talking and trying to talk over each other and you're yeah. It's the best.

Bea Victoria Albina: Yeah. Oh, I like empanadas for that. What do you like to serve? I we just got to bring the food back in.

Aja Evans: Always. What do I like to serve? I really, like I said, I really love food and I like cooking. So it really does depend on the mood. I love like a table full of finger appy foods and dips and that you can come and leave and come back and just like, I love that, but if I'm going to like my family's then I do want them to cook me some huge big meal that I'm like, oh, look at these plates and plates of food. Yes. So it depends on the mood.

Bea Victoria Albina: Fair enough. Fair enough. I am empanada obsessed because I found a bakery near me that's like from my part of Argentina because it's a huge country so they vary wildly but man that's thing, they're so good so come on over.

Aja Evans: Yum, coming.

Bea Victoria Albina: I mean, we'll have all the kinds. It'll be delicious and nourishing.

Aja Evans: Nourishing, even better.

Bea Victoria Albina: Yeah. Yeah. And that reminder is coming back into my mind to not ask money to do things it cannot do that are not its job. It's not there to make you feel better. It's not there to make you feel worse. It's just what it is. And you don't need to make it's just a tool. It's yeah, it's not something you need to make more. My love, thank you so much for this.

Aja Evans: Thank you for having me.

Bea Victoria Albina: It was so lovely. It was really truly a delight. I know that everyone listening is going to want to follow you, going to want to buy the book. Where can they find you?

Aja Evans: Sure. So you can find me on IG and TikTok because I do a little dabbling in TikTok. Just, you know, a dip a toe at Aja E-Therapy, A-J-A-E-Therapy. And then you can find me on my website which is ajaevanscounseling.com, A-J-A-E-V-A-N-S-Counseling.com.

Bea Victoria Albina: Fantastic. Thank you so much.

—

Thank you so much for listening. There was so much in that conversation. I found so fascinating and definitely more to chew on, more to think about, more to contemplate, especially these concepts of money and nourishment, how we relate to self, our bodies, our lineages, and the role that money plays. There's a lot in there that you know I'm going to be thinking about, talking about, writing about, and I can't wait to share all of that with you here on Feminist Wellness. Thanks again, my beauty. 

Let's do what we do. Gentle hand on your heart should you feel so moved. And remember, you are safe. You are held. You are loved. And when one of us heals, we help heal the world. Be well, my love. I'll talk to you soon. Ciao.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Feminist Wellness. If you want to learn more all about somatics, what the heck that word means, and why it matters for your life, head on over to BeatrizAlbina.com/somaticswebinar for a free webinar all about it. Have a beautiful day, my darling, and I'll see you next week. Ciao.